Many nations practised colonial invasions. Romans for one invaded your land in Scotland and they took slaves. If you want to talk about colonialism you need to include all invasions pertinent to Scotland and Glasgow not just transatlantic slave trade. Otherwise you are just virtue signalling.
Greater insight into the experiences and thoughts of enslaved people, through the use of narratives or other historical research would counter-balance the names and faces of enslavers in Glasgows public spaces. Also closer examination of resistance to slavery: rebellion, strikes, runaways, campaigning, public speeches and petitions. How all kinds of folk found ways to go against the prevailing legal order and say that slavery was wrong.
I acnt argue with AslaamN in his summary "Many nations practised colonial invasions. Romans for one invaded your land in Scotland and they took slaves. If you want to talk about colonialism you need to include all invasions pertinent to Scotland and Glasgow not just transatlantic slave trade or uk Colonialism. Otherwise you are just virtue signalling" but then we know politicians and councillors jump on a the latest cause when under pressure from groups who shout loudest
"Need to know" not a whole lot. We are more than 200 years removed from it. No one alive today has any experience of Glasgows involvement in the slave trade or colonialism.
From a basic historic standpoint obviously it was abhorrent and while we engaged in it at a time when this was normalised and was happening on a global scale. However its also important context to know that we rightly stopped this practice, Britain also fought and our people died in the fight to end it across the world.
Though if this faux outrage about some street names and statues were to be redirected and instead the effort and resources focused on the countries where today slavery is still very much alive and well, perhaps there would be more credibility rather than the vapid virtue signalling of changing some street names.
How far back does that go? Slavery is as old as humans, does Italy owe us for the Roman slavery? Does Norway and Sweden owe us for the Viking slavery? Does Africa owe us for the white slaves used by Africans and then we also owe them because of the African slaves used by us?
This is nothing more than racial victimhood and division about something that no one today had any direct involvement in and (almost) universally agree that it was abhorrent.
Not sure what you mean by grifting? The racism that people experience today is a direct legacy of the TAST. In Scotland and Glasgow today, race hate crime is by far the most prevalent of all hate crime, and our BME communities experience this.
In terms of how far back we go, the work of Stephen Mullen and others demonstrates that it it is that trade that changed Glasgow from a town to a wealthy city.
I mean people who are using fashionable ideological dogma to their own personal gain, whether that is political or financial. Make no mistake, this project will make some people a tidy sum of money and provide power to others.
So before the TAST there was no racism? Please, spare me the intellectual dishonesty.
It also turned African towns into wealthy cities and changed the balance of power for some African nations who profited massively from enslaving people and selling them to the European empires.
We all know slavery is bad, we all know it happened. We dont need to dredge it all back up now and tear down statues etc of anyone remotely associated with it during a time when it was globally normal. There is nothing to be gained here (except for the aforementioned race grifters).
You've made the comment about 'race grifters' several times now and it's not only boring, but incorrect. There is no financial benefit for the Council in doing this work.
No-one is saying that racism didn't exist before, but propaganda and negative stereotyping about black African people was created deliberately to make the TAST acceptable. The specific racism that BME people experience here and in the US for example, is a direct result of those messages within the culture of that time.
A number of these questions are answered in Glasgow, Slavery and Atlantic Commerce: An Audit of Historic Connections and Modern Legacies (Stephen Mullen, March 2022) - https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=29117
That people alive today are not victims of history. If we keep telling people they are victims, all we do is create victims. Slavery has existed as long as humans have walked the earth. We should celebrate the fact that we are NOT victims of it due to the enlightened progress of previous generations.
And yet the working classes still continue to suffer because of the wealthier classes who wish for the past injustices to remain hidden away. Uncovering hidden injustices allows for justice for all oppressed peoples - no matter their race, class or gender. Glasgow has significant deprivation - and a lot of is linked to inequalities that are linked to past (and present) injustices.
I disagree strongly with this (and agree with Dustin). If we're only interested what people alive today have directly experienced, then surely ANY study of history becomes redundant! The situation we're all in today is a result of what happened in the past. The fact is that, with the help of people's enslavement and forced labour, resources were extracted and the resulting wealth concentrated in the hands of very few – and the descendants of those wealthy few are today largely still... very wealthy.
If you actually bothered to read the thread in its full context you would realise that the discussion is around the "victim" status of people today, making your entire comment redundant.
Glasgow was heavily involved in the systems of transatlantic slavery and colonialism and we are still living with the legacies of Glasgow's involvement today. White supremacy and racism is institutionalised in Scottish society and this means that minority ethnic people are more likely to live in poverty, more likely to have poorer job outcomes, more likely to experience hate crimes and racial bullying, amongst other things. Learning about how these issues came about in Glasgow, through the attitudes and actions of Glaswegians involved in transatlantic slavery, would help us all to understand how to tackle these issues today.
That slavery took place it was abhorrent and that it was cultured not only by white westerners but by African tribes who would fight each other and take each other as prisoners then sell to western slave traders. So this was not a one way street albiet the western traders created a market
Many nations practised colonial invasions. Romans for one invaded your land in Scotland and they took slaves. If you want to talk about colonialism you need to include all invasions pertinent to Scotland and Glasgow not just transatlantic slave trade. Otherwise you are just virtue signalling.
Greater insight into the experiences and thoughts of enslaved people, through the use of narratives or other historical research would counter-balance the names and faces of enslavers in Glasgows public spaces. Also closer examination of resistance to slavery: rebellion, strikes, runaways, campaigning, public speeches and petitions. How all kinds of folk found ways to go against the prevailing legal order and say that slavery was wrong.
I acnt argue with AslaamN in his summary "Many nations practised colonial invasions. Romans for one invaded your land in Scotland and they took slaves. If you want to talk about colonialism you need to include all invasions pertinent to Scotland and Glasgow not just transatlantic slave trade or uk Colonialism. Otherwise you are just virtue signalling" but then we know politicians and councillors jump on a the latest cause when under pressure from groups who shout loudest
"Need to know" not a whole lot. We are more than 200 years removed from it. No one alive today has any experience of Glasgows involvement in the slave trade or colonialism.
From a basic historic standpoint obviously it was abhorrent and while we engaged in it at a time when this was normalised and was happening on a global scale. However its also important context to know that we rightly stopped this practice, Britain also fought and our people died in the fight to end it across the world.
Though if this faux outrage about some street names and statues were to be redirected and instead the effort and resources focused on the countries where today slavery is still very much alive and well, perhaps there would be more credibility rather than the vapid virtue signalling of changing some street names.
Every nation through time has traded people
That this city's wealth owes a lot to the proceeds of slavery and reparations should be made.
How far back does that go? Slavery is as old as humans, does Italy owe us for the Roman slavery? Does Norway and Sweden owe us for the Viking slavery? Does Africa owe us for the white slaves used by Africans and then we also owe them because of the African slaves used by us?
This is nothing more than racial victimhood and division about something that no one today had any direct involvement in and (almost) universally agree that it was abhorrent.
This race grifting is what needs to stop.
Not sure what you mean by grifting? The racism that people experience today is a direct legacy of the TAST. In Scotland and Glasgow today, race hate crime is by far the most prevalent of all hate crime, and our BME communities experience this.
In terms of how far back we go, the work of Stephen Mullen and others demonstrates that it it is that trade that changed Glasgow from a town to a wealthy city.
I mean people who are using fashionable ideological dogma to their own personal gain, whether that is political or financial. Make no mistake, this project will make some people a tidy sum of money and provide power to others.
So before the TAST there was no racism? Please, spare me the intellectual dishonesty.
It also turned African towns into wealthy cities and changed the balance of power for some African nations who profited massively from enslaving people and selling them to the European empires.
We all know slavery is bad, we all know it happened. We dont need to dredge it all back up now and tear down statues etc of anyone remotely associated with it during a time when it was globally normal. There is nothing to be gained here (except for the aforementioned race grifters).
You've made the comment about 'race grifters' several times now and it's not only boring, but incorrect. There is no financial benefit for the Council in doing this work.
No-one is saying that racism didn't exist before, but propaganda and negative stereotyping about black African people was created deliberately to make the TAST acceptable. The specific racism that BME people experience here and in the US for example, is a direct result of those messages within the culture of that time.
As much as possible , where , how , what and also how the proceeds were used ?
A number of these questions are answered in Glasgow, Slavery and Atlantic Commerce: An Audit of Historic Connections and Modern Legacies (Stephen Mullen, March 2022) - https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=29117
A number of these questions are answered in Glasgow, Slavery and Atlantic Commerce: An Audit of Historic Connections and Modern Legacies (Stephen Mullen, March 2022) - https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=29117
(https://www.glasgow.gov.uk/index.aspx?articleid=29117)
That people alive today are not victims of history. If we keep telling people they are victims, all we do is create victims. Slavery has existed as long as humans have walked the earth. We should celebrate the fact that we are NOT victims of it due to the enlightened progress of previous generations.
And yet the working classes still continue to suffer because of the wealthier classes who wish for the past injustices to remain hidden away. Uncovering hidden injustices allows for justice for all oppressed peoples - no matter their race, class or gender. Glasgow has significant deprivation - and a lot of is linked to inequalities that are linked to past (and present) injustices.
But none of todays poverty is linked to slavery 200 years ago, no person alive today had a direct involvement in the TAST, making your point invalid.
I disagree strongly with this (and agree with Dustin). If we're only interested what people alive today have directly experienced, then surely ANY study of history becomes redundant! The situation we're all in today is a result of what happened in the past. The fact is that, with the help of people's enslavement and forced labour, resources were extracted and the resulting wealth concentrated in the hands of very few – and the descendants of those wealthy few are today largely still... very wealthy.
If you actually bothered to read the thread in its full context you would realise that the discussion is around the "victim" status of people today, making your entire comment redundant.
Glasgow was heavily involved in the systems of transatlantic slavery and colonialism and we are still living with the legacies of Glasgow's involvement today. White supremacy and racism is institutionalised in Scottish society and this means that minority ethnic people are more likely to live in poverty, more likely to have poorer job outcomes, more likely to experience hate crimes and racial bullying, amongst other things. Learning about how these issues came about in Glasgow, through the attitudes and actions of Glaswegians involved in transatlantic slavery, would help us all to understand how to tackle these issues today.
That slavery took place it was abhorrent and that it was cultured not only by white westerners but by African tribes who would fight each other and take each other as prisoners then sell to western slave traders. So this was not a one way street albiet the western traders created a market